This Is Andrew Shim & Vicky McClure Pt.1

You heard what young Tommo Turgoose (Shaun) had to say about taking part in ‘This Is England’. Now Nickman has sat down for a few words with Shane Meadows’ acting regulars, Andrew Shim and Vicky McClure, who play Milky and Lol in ‘This Is England’. The following is the first half of the mammoth chat that involved; spontaneous swimming, Shane as a filmmaker, and Tommo getting that (now famous) fiver.

It was 1999 when they first worked with Shane in his previous feature, ‘A Room for Romeo Brass’. Now eight years on and Nickman is explaining to them both how the two painful hours that were ‘Music & Lyrics’ were worth it thanks to ‘This Is England’.

Nickman: We saw a lot of s**t at that preview weekend, but the one film that shone among the rest was ‘This Is England’. Every member of the BritFilms crew has seen it now and everybody agrees that it’s incredible.

Shim: Ah, wicked!

Nickman: So firstly let’s start with how you two got involved in the film?

McClure: Shane has like a million ideas at once, but there was one that was sticking out for him and he was like, “I’ve got this idea for a film and I want you and Vicky to get involved. There’s a girl…” I didn’t think much of it and then before we knew it we were sat on steps with our heads shaved.

Shim: That’s how it always works, it starts with Shane mentioning it, but I never get my hopes up because everyone’s so eager to get involved.

Nickman: Now this is your third film with Shane [to Andrew] and your second [to Vicky].

McClure: Yeah.

Shim: It’s my fourth.

Nickman: It’s your fourth? Did you sneak into ‘Dead Man’s Shoes’ somewhere?

Shim: Well I actually got edited out, because I tell Paddy Considine what happened to his brother, but Shane didn’t think it worked. It’s almost like a ‘Where’s Wally?’

Nickman: So was ‘Romeo’ the first time you’d met Shane? Or had you always been mates with him?

McClure: No that was the first time for both of us because we were both at the Central TV workshop in Nottingham; Shane came down and saw a load of people.

Shim: He told me, he kinda knew he wanted me before I auditioned because I came strolling in twenty minutes late, a sandwich in one hand a motorbike magazine in the other. And every time we had a break and people were taking orders for drinks and what not, I was asking for bacon butties (Laughs).

Nickman: That’s funny because, by the sounds of it, that’s how they got Tommo as well wasn’t it? He was the loudest, the late one? Would you say Shane’s got an eye for young talent?

Shim: Well it was a struggle to get him [Tommo] down there because as you probably know, he was in a youth centre and heard commotion for auditions. He went in and was asked to come down to Nottingham and he was like, “F**k that, not unless ya paying me!” (Laughs) And he’d do this every time, I think when he realised how much of a goldmine he was sitting on, his rates started to go up. But even then we knew we said to Shane: “Mate, this is the one”.

Nickman: Initially you both worked on ‘Romeo Brass’ which, from ‘Twenty Four Seven’ and ‘Romeo Brass’, there’s a massive difference in the filmmaking. What were the differences on set between ‘Romeo Brass’ and ‘This Is England’? Did you see changes in Shane?

McClure: Well it was quite long ago, and I was quite young and I suppose I didn’t really appreciate the crew, and to be on board making a film, it was all really bizarre, I didn’t know what was going on. Shane’s way of working, for me hasn’t really changed. He gives you space, he gives you so much involvement in your character. When we’re not doing a take, we’re pissing about on set. Its not serious – we don’t have to leave at a certain time and what not. If anything, we’ve grown up, we’ve learnt to appreciate his work more, and we’ve wanted to get more involved. I don’t think it’s changed at all.

Shim: And like you said, “‘This Is England’ is light years ahead, but the heart stays there and that’s a product of how Shane works. He knows it works. It’s this freedom factor that creates a massive positive effect, improvisation, all spur of the moment stuff.

McClure: There was a time I remember when I was on set and someone coming up to me and going “we’re going swimming tomorrow”, “Oh, nice one! Have a good time”, “No, no – we’re all going swimming tomorrow.” I was like, “Ya what?”  See the thing was, we were told that like a day before we were doing it, because Shane will have been in bed one night and thought, “Right, I need a swimming scene” or “I need this scene” – scenes that were never in the film. But it’s scenes like this that if they weren’t in it, the film wouldn’t have half as much effect. It wouldn’t be the film it is today without moments like those.

Shim: It’s daring. I mean, he’ll change everything if he has to, something not many people do. He’ll do it with people too. Like, I don’t know any director that would get rid of his assistant director. That’s like your right hand man, but he’ll do what he knows is best. He knew without him he could still continue.

Nickman: That’s the thing.  We’ll be honest  –  we love Shane’s films but there’s something about, ‘Once Upon a Time in the Midlands’ that sticks out for us. It doesn’t continue what it started out as, and it seems like it was down to studio involvement.

Shim: Well he wasn’t best pleased with ‘Once Upon a Time in the Midlands’ just for the simple fact that he didn’t have complete control of the film. Whereas now he’s got financiers putting £2m-£3m into the film, Shane’s sticking to his guns, and when important people who put this money in are responding with, “oh, my gosh, this is terrible! What have you done?!” he’s still determined. The result is that he goes back and the financiers are like, “we can’t believe we almost had you making something completely different.”

It’s the same with some actors, you’ll be working with ‘em, next minute they’ll be on a plane, packed up and gone and I’m like, “see ya” – that’s it! But then I’m thinking “your heart just isn’t in it. It’s not all about talent.”

Nickman: I think that’s the problem with a few Hollywood films, it sounds cliché and I’m going to be saying this a lot but some just don’t have heart.

McClure: That’s because they’ve got like 10 million people working on it. Somebody’s written it. Somebody’s directed it. Somebody’s edited it. Someone’s produced it, and the thing is these people have probably never met each other. Just in Hollywood’s eyes they’re the best person for the job.

But with Shane it’s very much “I’m going to write it. I’m going direct it. I’m going to pick the soundtrack.” He takes responsibility for everything, takes complete control, and puts his vision on the screen. He’ll only take people on board if they’re willing to be flexible with him, if they can see where he’s coming from, and why he’s got these ideas. If they’re not on board, they can’t appreciate Shane or where he’s coming from, there’s no point working with him. He has to have people on the same wavelength in terms of what he wants to produce.

Shim: Hollywood make what the public want and I think that’s problem, real films tend to slip through the net.

McClure: That’s right. It’s the same with television. Reality TV is taking over. They’re not willing to try anything different.

Shim: This is the reason why I think with Shane, as much as ‘This Is England’ has the potential to be massive. This is the reason why Shane has much more of a cult following and is not seen as a Steven Spielberg of England. He just doesn’t give in. Films like, ‘Football Factory’ for example, I was talking to Shane about it and he was like “ya know what? I loved it – but I was let down by the ending when he was sat there, broken arm, cracked – whatever, and then they ask him, “was it worth it?” and he says, “yeah!” Oh yeah… course it was. It’s like, that’s not reality, because it wasn’t worth it, and you know it wasn’t, but the public wanna hear it. People think it’s all about making it, Shane could make millions if he wanted to but, y’know he’s been offered all sorts. Yeah, you could make films that are going to make money and all the rest of it. You can give people what they want, but it’s a lot harder than people think.

We'll leave Andrew and Vicky for now, but be sure to check the site on Friday for the second part of 'This Is Andrew Shim & Vicky McClure' where the two stars discuss the draconian 18 certificate, and Sinead O'Connor (eh?).

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